Curse

ogre_jd · Jun 07, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

All in all: bring a good bar to the party or go home. If you don't know how to build a good bar, you'd better rely on popular builds.

On the other hand, if you know how to build an adequate bar, one that works well enough, I'll be happy to take you on so that you'll have a decent playing experience and not have to try and team with people like this.

Dante the Warlord · Jun 07, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

It really depends on who the critic is. It its a person of the same profession or the team leader (or general consensus of the team) that the build won't work or fit, than you should change it. But if you have a W/Mo with healing skills in his bar telling you that you are a noob than ignore him. Otherwise anything is game. I would rather be criticized and get the right skills than keep failing in a group.

One of the biggest problems that players have is that they may not have all the skills and don't have the necessary amount of play time on that char (goes esp for zquests nowadays where people are using mules to get zoins). Combined with the I WANNA GO attitude and the lack of patience in game it results in a lotta bad arguments.

To the original poster - it is obvious that your team was correct to criticize you. I don't know the tone in which they stated it, but their points were probably valid (look around at the people who are posting). I know it feels bad now, but there are a lotta good free hero skills that you could use and make a really good build... Try again and try to do it with a nice guild to learn!

tuna-fish_sushi · Jun 07, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

On the other hand, if you know how to build an adequate bar, one that works well enough, I'll be happy to take you on so that you'll have a decent playing experience and not have to try and team with people like this.

You just said the exact same thing he said, except you said adequate bar that works well enough in stead of good bar. Which are pretty much the same thing.

Martin Alvito · Jun 07, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

What he's on about is the way I said it. To be honest, I don't want to play with him either.

Tarkin · Jun 07, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Very efective builds - build made for the area, very fast
Good builds - classic good builds... fast
Fun builds - you choose, are lots, and they work in 90% of game, normal speed
Bad builds - you choose, are lots, and they work in 10% of game, slow speed

In some areas you need very efective builds, or things dont work...
In some areas you can play good builds and it will work...
In some areas you can play fun builds...
Go to level 5 monsters areas or random areas if you want to play bad builds...

Sorry my bad english...

Laraja · Jun 07, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

It's not my nature to criticize a build. I may suggest changes based on the type of monsters the group will encounter... such as disease and bleeding won't work if the majority of your foes are non-fleshy for example... but NM is so freakin' easy that I won't get super picky. I have found that creative people can do amazing things what what other people precieve as crappy builds. I do get a bit more insistent in HM or elite areas, but not obnoxiously so. Again, not my nature.

And when I do run into the dreaded build criticizer, I try to listen to what they're saying not how they're saying it. Usually though, I get a 'nice' for my builds because I research before I attempt anything. I hate epic fails.

refer · Jun 07, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

This post was ok until

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Of course, this does not apply to the legitimate "junk builds" out there. And yea, I have seen a lot of them. But come on, by the time a person makes it to Hell's Precipice (or any of the other endgame points), they should have a good idea what is working, and what is not working.

Define a "legitimate" junk build then. What keeps yours from being one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

I suggest to those that read the forum, try not to be build critics. Sure you may be an ace, but the other person often has something quite specific in mind, that you are not thinking about. And if you actually see them in action, you might be amazed at what some of the "unconventional builds" can do.

now actually practice it. I think you don't.

Razon · Jun 07, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Well there is 1 rule for (almost) all pve builds:

- Never split to more than 3 attributes.

Racthoh · Jun 07, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

And it was with a character that has 3 different Defender titles, and several others.

Do not assume this means anything. If someone has one character with 30 titles and another with 5 it doesn't mean they're necessarily better at using the one with 30.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

People play different ways.

I played differently when I hero/hench because it's something that is no doubt fairly easy to achieve so I can afford to experiment. If I see a bar that doesn't look good in my group pinged by someone I've never played with before I'm going to need a little more than their word that it's worked for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

I especially love it that the person that was so critical said afterwards that they have never played a Ritualist. So what gives them a right to complain? Or that they see that half of my hero monk's skills are Rit skills, so that means it is a junk build.

I've only ever played Warrior, Monk, and Paragon, but fiddled with several builds for each of the other professions as well be it on my heroes or coming up with a PvP build to something I saw on observer mode. Some people know what makes a good skill simply because they know how the mechanics of the game work, others because they've actually played in all of those roles. Just because they've never played the role doesn't mean they don't understand what makes a good build. Play long enough and expose yourself to people who know a thing or two and you start to pick up on those subtle things yourself. With that in mind, primary professions play primary profession roles. There are going to be very, very few exceptions to this rule and most of the time they're just PvP gimmicks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

So what that "Mend Body And Soul" is a Rit skill. It heals 39 points, and removes 1 condition per spirit (of which there are a lot since my main character is a Spirit Spammer).

39 is hardly a heal. That's like saying Smite Hex heals because I have a high Divine Favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Let's see another monk skill that removes Poison, Burning, Cripple, Deep Wound, and heals you at the same time. At a cost of only 5 energy no less.

Better question is why should I care about those conditions in PvE? Enemies don't kite, not to the point where Cripple is going to make or break the encounter anyway. This isn't PvP where you're constantly in battle and every bit of damage is going to add up over time to the point where it will make a significant impact on the outcome of battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Or Spirit Light, 5 energy and 84 health.

That's less health than Alesia/Mhenlo's Orison of Healing, arguably the worst spell in the Healing Prayers line (I've barely logged in for the past year so no idea if anything was made worse). If I'm dropping a henchman to take a player/hero they better be performing than that henchman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Sure you may be an ace, but the other person often has something quite specific in mind, that you are not thinking about.

Then don't post, why bother? Most people aren't interested in designing some gimmick and would rather stick to something that works. There is a reason people tend to use wiki or forum builds because they're generally accepted as functional. If someone asks me for a Mo/Rt build using Spirits I'm going to tell them to play a Ritualist primary, or in the past a Necromancer.

Chthon · Jun 08, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

This thread ought to be closed. No matter how many people pile into this thread and tell him his build is flat out terrible, OP isn't going to get it. No matter how vigorously OP requests that people stop criticizing terrible builds, they're not going to. Nothing productive is going to come out of this.

4thVariety · Jun 08, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

I am reasonably confident of being able to earn the following titles with an empty skillbar:

3 Cartographers
3 Protectors
Norn, Asura, Dwarf, and Ebon faction
Legendary Survivor
Skillhunter

My plan has me start at Factions. After the Tut, I get Olias and switch to EotN as early as possible. Play that until Livia and Level to 20, then head over to Nightfall straight for the Master. You can imagine the rest once I got that setup. After that it is Sabway + 2 Ranger 2 Monks all the way. Faction titles are easily earned since Sabway can master all EotN Missions in Hardmode, so it is only an issue of farming books.

So you see, empty skillbar, the best there is.

Apart from that: when pugging in elite mission alone - don't argue with the guys from the guild which is the core team of the run. It's their show, run their build, most of the time it'll work just fine. But argue with them and you get kicked, then join a group of people who all run their "best" build. Things will then go South pretty quickly.

Nay of the Ether · Jun 08, 2009, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

This thread ought to be closed. No matter how many people pile into this thread and tell him his build is flat out terrible, OP isn't going to get it. No matter how vigorously OP requests that people stop criticizing terrible builds, they're not going to. Nothing productive is going to come out of this.

closing this thread is a good idea I think. I believe all sides have said their piece and now its just filler. Just my suggestion though.

fenix · Jun 08, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

So it was written, so it shall be done.